No simple answer to this simple question.  But let’s start by saying one of the biggest shifts as it relates to the church will be from the modernist question of “does the church understand what she believes” to the postmodern “can the church live what she understands?”  The modern question is that of rational dissection, parsing and information transmission.  The postmodern question is about experiential congruence, credibility, embodiment, and transformation. For the church to live in this postmodern age she must LIVE in this postmodern age.  The modern church was more disposed to inform, indoctrinate or cajole.

2.  What do you see as the two biggest problems facing leaders in the emerging church?

The first thing is lack of maps and few cartographers.  There is, of course, a huge upside here; we may get curious and inquisitive about what “could be.”  But our modernist moorings, where being seminar junkies and bookaholics was rewarded with the right answers for our analytical questions makes ministry in this emerging new era very problematic.  This new terrain is unmapped, the books haven’t been written and therefore, the answers seem illusive.  The fact is indigenous ministry will not tolerate book answers to our questions.  And the maps may look very different from what we are used to.  The first big mapping question is around how we organically allow God’s story to intersect the stories of people living in our postmodern world?  This may be the 94 million dollar question.

The second big issue is how to create more workable models of life change and transformation. We find the information revolution so sexy. We have gadgets and technology to keep it in front of us. We have corporate departments that manage it.  But the reality is for all the information floating around in the church there seems to be a nearly inverse proportion of life change.  Certainly guys like Gallup and Barna indicate that is the case.  One of the biggest leadership questions we need to wrestle to the ground is what is the best way to see lives changed not merely informed?

3.  How do you see churches move from the mechanical to the organic?

This is a relatively easy one for me.  Create huge tolerance for mess, imprecision, lack of control, and curiosity.  The modern mechanical world was precise, predictable, boring-as-all-get-out, and, frankly, into control.  You can see these characteristics in many, many modern churches.  The postmodern world and church is open to not having all the answers but asking lots of questions.  The only sure answer being the Good News of Jesus’ rule and reign. 

The postmodern church needs to be comfortable with questioning sacred traditions, sacred structures and sacred cows…and tipping all of them if necessary.  All organic things grow and all growing things have some measure of unpredictability.  Until we are more concerned with health and the growth that automatically flows from it, we will put constraining systems and structures around the bubbling life of the Spirit. It seems that the modern church has done all she can to mechanize anything and everything.  From membership processes to salvation processes, we have a mechanical and predictable set of steps for just about everything.  If Paul or God really felt we needed Romans reduced to a simple “road” or “four spiritual principles for leading anyone to Christ”, why didn’t he give them to us in that format?  The postmodern church will simply be more content with the messiness of real life morphing than the tidiness of modern structures and systems.

4.  At Westwinds, how do you get people connected to ministry and each other?

We connect people to each other by events where people can hang out.  For people just investigating community we have things like our Valentines Jazz night where we sold 800 tickets, did round top tables in our auditorium with black linen, crystal, Starbucks, and dessert.  Basically, a jazz club less the smoke.  The same weekend we piped in the Daytona 500 on our 20-foot-screen for people.  Had numerous people who have never set foot in a church.  Obviously we have the more usual connecting points like divorce recovery, AA, parenting classes, etc…

As for connecting people into ministry we have all sorts of ministry teams from more urban flavored need meeting opportunities to creative ministry events.  We connect people to these through simple word of mouth and teammates making personal asks of people to join their teams.

5.  What do you see as the major conflict(s) between the modern and the emerging church?

The biggest thing by far will be the realness with which emerging churches carry on ministry.  It will be raw, real, and about God’s story and how it sneaks up and surprises us.  I think the lack of polish, conversational tone of the emerging church is so much more Jesus and so much more what is being looked for. 

Of course worship style will always be a hot spot generationally.  But I think one flash point will be whether the modern church will come around to acknowledging that what we see in the emerging church is really the emergent “new thing” God is doing or will they continue to decry it as a temporary way station for the next generation until they graduate to adult church.  Those that see it as a temporary way station are probably those who thought the Internet was a passing fad.

On the more theoretical and theological front, the emerging church has a huge tolerance for questioning well worn doctrinal distinctives; things like inerrancy, theories of atonement, eschatology, and foundationalism all come to mind. All of these are hot discussions in the emerging church.  In most evangelical churches a pretty clear party line has been established that nearly determines your “orthodoxy” in their minds.  The emerging church has little tolerance for being squeezed into a doctrinal mold.

6.  6.  How does Westwinds deal with "traditional evangelical values" - like no alcohol at all - in a postmodern world?

First, I have a wine cellar and am a gourmet cook. That may begin to get at your question.  But let’s look at this a bit.  We have to redefine holiness in biblical categories not evangelical modernist ones.  This is part of that realness issue.  Jesus was in so many party contexts, not overimbibing but almost certainly partaking I might be quick to add, but he was in those contexts so much that the moniker “glutton and drunkard” could be used as an accusation.  Think about that a bit.  Westwinds has a policy of liberty in regards to those gray areas Scripture does not address.  Drinking wine with dinner or having a cold beer, scripture doesn’t address, all that is addressed is overindulgence.  I am familiar with all the conservative attempts at biblical arguments for total abstinence. They are simply stretched, tired, and indefensible when carefully explored.  This is what really gets thinking postmoderns’ noses out of joint. If we have an opinion on abstinence, why not simply be honest and say it is a personal preference/conviction or feel is it more culturally wise?  Why attempt to get chapter and verse through hermeneutical gymnastics?  We respect those with differing convictions; but we have little wick for those who try to make their convictions on gray matters law.

7.  7.   What advice would you give a new leader in an emerging church?

Be real, be deep, get curious about the new thing God might do, listen, and ask great questions, be a life long learner, let spiritual formation be your main event, don’t get trapped in people pleasing, work for the audience of One, have fun doing what you are doing or get out of it, ministry has enough angry people for the next few generations.

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Ron Martoia

Westwinds 

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